(no subject)

[deelaundry]

This is not about ep. 5-1 of House; this is about the show overall.

Imma 'bout to rant:

IF YOU THINK, OVERALL, WILSON TREATS HOUSE WORSE THAN HOUSE TREATS WILSON, THEN YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED THE WHOLE SERIES

Wilson can be a dick, yes. He lies and manipulates, yes. He lectures WAY more than he should, yes. He's a "point out the speck in your eye without noticing the beam in mine" kind of guy, yes.

THE CENTRAL CONCEIT OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP IS THAT HOUSE TAKES AND WILSON GIVES. Remember the "You eat neediness" / "Lucky for you" conversation? Remember Cuddy's "You're the long-distance runner of neediness" comment to House? HOUSE NEEDS; WILSON ENABLES.

For shit's sake.

*this is not aimed, as far as I know, at anyone on my f-list*

ETA: Spoilers for ep 5-1 in comments.

Comments

[hannahrorlove.livejournal.com]

YES. And a pox on those who prompted the need for the rant.

Wilson enables because so much of his life has been set up to define himself in relation to other humans. I'm looking forward to what he'll be like when he learns not to do that.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

I find it eminently reasonable to say, "OMG, how could Wilson do this to House?" with "this" being specific things Wilson has done that have hurt House. Wilson's done crappy things, and he should get called on it.

But overall, the show has been set up that House uses Wilson, and Wilson enables. For a fan to ignore that blows my mind.

The lesson learned from Amber was for Wilson to take care of himself, in a healthy way. To stop being co-dependent. It will be very interesting to see (a) if that holds; and (b) if it does, how House and Wilson can construct a new relationship on that basis.

[euclase.livejournal.com]

ARE YOU SAYING WILSON MIGHT NOT TREAT HOUSE WORSE THAN HOUSE TREATS WILSON? I don't think I'm reading that right. :P

(And people actually have come to this conclusion? Jiminy Crickets, where's the metal pipette in the eye socket when you need it?)

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

People have actually come to this conclusion and I am ... going bonkers over it. Holy skamoly.

Nobody has to like Wilson. He's repressed, he's naggy, he cares too much what other people think of him, he's sneaky, he's passive-aggressive, and in certain ways he's pathetic. But, my God, some people want to put the wrong kind of devil horns on him, and that chaps my ass.

[nuclearfootball.livejournal.com]

This is the only time, the ONLY TIME, I will comment on a House-related post this week. I am commenting to say that what you are describing here is exactly WHY I am not commenting on House-related posts this week. I just cannot get into these conversations, I will lose my mind and want to delete my journal and just forget it all. And standing where I am now, calm and rational and at peace with the way the show is playing out, I know that I would regret doing that.

<3

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

*hugs you*

We are gonna have a good time in the next few eps, yessiree. House and Wilson are crazy bastards, and they deserve each other, on both the good and bad sides of that word.

As Cameron said (and how fucked up is the world that she's right about House & Wilson's relationship), Wilson should do what he needs to do but he'll see in time that there is no "right choice."

"Ultimately, we need those two together."

YES.

[chippers87.livejournal.com]

YES YES YES, and some more YES!

Wilson really did have a point when he said he wasn't sure if they ever had been friends. Obviously, we have no idea how their relationship looked pre-infarction, but it's hard to be friends, much less best friends with a guy who constantly begs you for Vicodin prescriptions, throws you in front of the cops and insane billionaires, and inadvertently gets your girlfriend killed!

So much needs to change in this relationship, and I can't wait to see what it looks like when they try to make this happen.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

House and Wilson's relationship is a whole big ball of fucked-up, or as Wilson said in S1 "this stupid, screwed-up friendship." It worked for them until it didn't, but it was never normal, and never particularly healthy, and as Wilson said, could you really describe it as "friends"? Or is it some other name for a relationship?

I don't know if you were on HHoW, but I want to re-iterate something from there: I don't think Cuddy really sees Wilson as a friend. And, hey, that's fine. I think she sees House as a friend, someone she cares about it, but if she doesn't want to see Wilson that way, that is totally her privilege.

I've been thinking about a pie chart each for House, Wilson, and Cuddy that would show what they think about (pre-Amber).

I think House's would be: House 50% (incl. pain, misery, distractions from pain, his own general awesomeness, etc.); puzzles/challenges 35%; facts (including medicine and random trivia) 10%; Wilson 3%; Cuddy 1%; the rest of the world 1%.

Wilson's would be: House 41%, work 40%, family/colleagues/strangers on the street 20%, Wilson -1%.

Help me out with Cuddy's. My tentative chart is: Hospital 40%, House 20%, Family (including one she might want to start) 19%, Friends 11%, Cuddy 10%.

[jdr1184.livejournal.com]

*Prepares to beat all the Wilson!haters with House's cane* Let me at them, Dee. Rwwwwwr

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

I confess, JDR, that one of my f-list doesn't like Wilson. Perhaps so far as hates him. But that is due to his own extremely annoying characteristics, not due to misinterpretation of the series as a whole. *rolls eyes extremely hard and actually hurts them*

[warmdarkwoman.livejournal.com]

I have posted this two other places, and I'm going to post it here, with a change:

I think that Wilson did the right thing. Period.

[jdr1184.livejournal.com]

The sad thing is that eventually he'll be back in the unhealthy relationship because god according to Shore means no one changes. It will be so depressing if their relationship doesn't change for the better at least a little bit.

[sodiumbisulfite.livejournal.com]

Ive always liked House best. And its not that I think Wilson treats House worse than House treats Wilson. Its more of, House isnt as terrible like everyone seems to make him out as imo. Theres more to him than that to me. idk. ahah Maybe Im biased because I like his scruff. But I dont really get involved in debates anyways because my arguments are always along the lines of, "WELL HOUSE HAS AWESOME SNEAKERS...SO THERE!" (im not very good at them ahaha)

ETA OF COURSE I LIKE WILSON TOO <3

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

House is an awesome dude. And he cares a lot more than most people (on the show and in fandom) give him credit for. Abso-fucking-lutely. And Wilson is a little shit to House sometimes, on top of Wilson having all his own stupid weaselly characteristics (repressed, naggy, cares too much what other people think of him, sneaky, passive-aggressive, etc.).

My yelling here is all about that one statement "House treats Wilson better than Wilson treats House" because it is not true and goes against what the show has set up.

House is my boy, and I love him. Please don't doubt that.

[nightdog-barks.livejournal.com]

*hugs you*

Dee, I know where this is coming from, because I peeked into that forum and backed away as quickly as I could.

All I can say is that as soon as everyone accepts that Wilson is TEH DEVIL INCARNATE we will all get along and sing "Kum ba yah" in a lovely hand-holding festival of dubious symbolism.

For pete's sake ...

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

I love critique. I love hearing new perspectives that shed light and help me see characters in a new way. (stephbass, you so awesome!)

I can't stand this crazy "up is down" nonsense. Glargh!

[spoopy.livejournal.com]

IDGI WHERE IS ALL THIS WILSON HATE OR WHATEVER IT IS COMING FROM

WHY ARE SOME PEOPLE SO DUMB, DEE? WHY?

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

PEOPLE SO CRAZY, TICCY! SO CRAZY!

You know in six months it'll be something else. "House treats Wilson with kid gloves; ZOMG he should stop that." Something wacky and wild and not related to what HAPPENS ON THE SHOW at all.

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

I totally agree... I think House has done *at least* as many "bad friend" things to Wilson as Wilson has done to him... I was just thinking about why people might tend to view it the other way, and I came up with this... not saying I agree with it at all, just observing...

I think it's because on the surface of things, the way it's portrayed is as you said -- House uses, Wilson gives... so I think as people see the complexities of it (House isn't as selfish as he seems at first, and Wilson isn't as selfless as he seems, etc) they tend to point out what is *least* obvious...as in "Everyone thinks Wilson's a saint, but he's *not*, he did this, this, this, etc..." and I think sometimes it goes overboard...

Just my thoughts on how this sort of thinking might come about...hope it makes sense...made sense in my head :P heheh

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

The complexity of their relationships is definitely the best thing about it. I love it when people analyze deeply and give me new insights. But there are some people who push so very far (in talking about the show itself, not fanfic, which can push much farther) that they get the basic premise of the show wrong. Saying "Overall Wilson is worse to House than House is to Wilson" is like saying "I like House because he's so cheerful." He's not a cheerful person! You can find certain instances of him being cheerful, but in general he's not that way.

*hugs*

[spoopy.livejournal.com]

NO, SERIOUSLY, WHERE IS ALL THIS HATE COMING FROM

[jdr1184.livejournal.com]

13’S BISEXUAL VAGINA IS TO BLAME! OR MAYBE CHASE’S HAIR.

[dangomango.livejournal.com]

I think a good percentage of this fandom is stuck in S1 - can't say that I blame them, but for fuck's sake.

*tears keyboard away from computer and beats people with it*

I would personally rather House and Wilson weren't as close, if it meant that they would each have actual chances at happiness >.>

Of course, they could be happy with each other, but they TOO BLIND TO SEE IT ARGH.

[dangomango.livejournal.com]

They are too blind to see it, I mean. My typing English good.

[shutterbug-12.livejournal.com]

Deleted previous one in case people haven't seen the ep. yet.

And the extension of the conceit down to their very blood types? Yes.

Just like there are times that Wilson is as much of an ass as House is, there are times that House can be generous and open in his way, but those are more exceptions rather than the rules.

SPOILERS:

But yes, House needs. Wilson enables. That.

[shutterbug-12.livejournal.com]

All right, so not exceptions exactly, just not all-the-times. Hee. House cares an awful lot, I think, especially based on Wilson's Heart, but Wilson has found himself in some terrible situations because of House, too. They're complicated fellows. Neither is a saint, and neither is a terrible, horrible demon (despite what House would sometimes have us believe).

[spoggly.livejournal.com]

MUTUAL EMOTIONAL ABUSE IS A+

LET US ALL BE HAPPY WITH THE FUCKED-UP CHARACTERS WE ARE GIVEN

~*~AMEN~*~

(lol link plzzzz??????)

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

You are a wise, wise individual.

[spoopy.livejournal.com]

OH LOOK, I HAVE A LOGIC COOKIE FOR YOU FROM THE LAND OF H_W:

I AM MORE UPSET ABOUT HOUSE AND WILSON BREAKING UP THAN I WAS WHEN MY PARENTS DIVORCED. D:

GEE, I DON'T KNOW

[sodiumbisulfite.livejournal.com]

LOL. WUT?

[inlaterdays.livejournal.com]

I was proud of Wilson for standing up to House and saying he wasn't going to be an enabler anymore, actually, even though it hurt to watch.

But now House needs to change and Wilson needs to come back and they need to have some healing schmoopy cuddles and then the make-up secks. Darnit.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

Oh, Wilson. Oh, House. If you were fucking this would all be even more complicated, but a thousand times hotter, so after the make-up time comes the make-up sex, right? Right, boys?

[daasgrrl.livejournal.com]

Um, I was going to pop in and yell 'vindicated' at all the not-blaming bit, but that obviously wasn't good enough and I'm FAILING TO SEE THE FULL EXTENT OF WILSON'S EVIL. FFS.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

YOU KNOW, I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT YOU HAD AN INCOMPLETE GRASP OF THESE CHARACTERS!!!!!!!!!

(You know that's a joke, right? ♥ ♥ &hearts:)

[poeia.livejournal.com]

In Season 1 I thought Wilson treated House worse. He arranged the Detox. He dumped House (and the Oncology Dinner) to go to dinner with Stacy. Most of the thing House did to Wilson back then were on a stealing lunch level of annoying.

House did cost Wilson his job, but he didn't do that to Wilson. He was being obnoxious to Vogler and he refused to see what the fallout might be.

I think what Wilson has done to House has remained pretty much on the same level ever since. He enables House. He manipulates House and House's life because he thinks if he can just get House to do X, House's life will be better.

But House's life has gotten worse in the last 3 years, especially Stacy leaving and Tritter. Amd, while Wilson's behavior has stayed much the same to House, House has treated him worse and worse.

Overall, I think the main difference is in motives. Both do what is best for House so Wilson at least has the justification of his bad behavior being altruistic. House's is selfish.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

Thank you, thank you for an in-depth, thoughtful analysis. I had thought of S1 as the nirvana of their equality, but you are very much right. Wilson did deeper-level crap to House then. I think House knew, or at least had the capacity to know (if he'd not been so focused on himself), that Wilson would lose in the game with Volger, so I still count that as a "using" of Wilson. But Wilson's manipulations were more deliberate than House's (albeit in the case of the detox, with a good intention).

Season Two was where they really seemed equal, particularly highlighted in House v God as House was the master diagnostician and Wilson wielded his "silver tongue."

You're right that both do what is best for House, and that Wilson tries to make his motivations altruistic. It's interesting, though, that while House's motivation is generally blatantly selfish, Wilson's is more obscurely selfish.

In Japanese culture (when I studied it in the early '90s), there is the family (uchi) and the outside (soto). You treat those on the outside as honored guests, and you treat your family as yourself. I think for Wilson, House is part of his family (uchi), so doing something for the betterment of House is, emotionally, like doing something for his own betterment.

[bammel.livejournal.com]

House (♥) dumps vile shit all over the place, and especially all over Wilson.

AAHA THESE PEOPLE ARE KILLING ME WITH POISONED LULZ

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

"THE BLOOD OF THESE WHORES IS KILLING ME!"

Have you seen that movie? It's extremely CAPSLOCK. (Andy Warhol's Dracula (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071233/))

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

You are so right. Wilson has his times of bad treatment of House (usually with good intentions but sometimes not).

When House is honest/open and Wilson tramples on that, it breaks my heart. Monster Trucks in S1 (House wanted to go so bad, and he went way out of his way to get those tickets, for himself, yes, but also to share with Wilson) was the first time I wanted to pound Wilson on the head, but the blowing off of House's pain in S3 (although that was not maliciously meant) was similarly disturbing and had an even longer-lasting effect.

At the end of 5-1, "Maybe I can help" tore me apart because it was so absoutely sincere, and a gesture we haven't seen before, but it just came way too late. Waaaaaaaaah.

It's going to get better from here, I think. Wilson taking care of himself will mean less sneaky, behind-House's-back stuff (fingers crossed!), and they will come to a relationship, I believe, that's more of a two-way street and involves a lot more happiness for both of them.

:D Golly, I'm a pollyanna! ♥ ♥

[elynittria.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with your rant! I peeked at the post-ep discussion on H_W and seriously wondered whether these people had been watching the same show as I had for the past few years. Incredible.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

All I'm asking is that people base their opinions on what has happened on the show overall. It doesn't seem that hard. : (

[mer-duff.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad I read this before I started browsing the forums, because then I could just skim over posts that might put me on the defensive (because I'm as predisposed to justify Wilson as other viewers might have been to hate him). Though I have to say the degree of Wilson hate isn't nearly what I was fearing - and I think that has to do with how beautifully RSL played his scenes. You could truly see Wilson's pain and grief. It doesn't negate how badly I felt for House at the end, but it helped me understand where Wilson was coming from.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

RSL was masterful the entire episode. Exquisite, really.

I was telling people over the summer, as spoilers started coming out: you have to see the ep, and how it's acted, before you can form a true opinion. HL and RSL do so much of their acting through vocal tone, facial expression, and posture that it's almost impossible to know how a scene is going to come across until you see it.

[sookail.livejournal.com]

YES.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

For Pete's sake! Nobody has to like Wilson; nobody has to think Wilson is right in any given situation; but they really need to accept the canon of the show.

[mitfordgal.livejournal.com]

Preach it sister. That last scene (and the scene between Wilson and Cameron) saved the episode. It was just so boring. Kill 13 now... (sorry, that just slipped out).

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

The last scene... no words. OK, two words: Emmy tape. Phew.

I really liked the scene between Wilson and Cameron, and how weird I find that to say.

[daisylily.livejournal.com]

Ah. I've just read all the comments here, and I'm so glad I skipped over all the house_wilson episode-y posts. It makes me sad when I think how excellent that comm used to be and how demented some of it is now.

I loved the episode, but I'd like to see the next one RIGHT NOW PLEASE

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

I want the next one right now, too! I've heard it is very fun and I want to seeeee iiiiiitt.

The sad thing about this post of mine? I haven't even gone to house_wilson. This rant was sparked by a few people on HHoW. It's been building for a while, though. I'm hoping now that it's out of my system I can have a more positive outlook for the rest of the season :D