ALIEB42 - YOU ROCK

[deelaundry]

"aileb42
2010-05-04 09:22 am (local) (link)
Wilson is not being cruel. House is being a jerk as usual, and a crybaby."

I love House. I empathize with him and make excuses for him, and try to contort my thinking into the thinking of those who make even more excuses for him.

And then alieb42 comes along and tells the truth, and knocks sense into me.

YOU ARE AWESOME!

(possibility of minor spoilers in comments, depending on what people want to talk about -- NO MAJOR SPOILERS, please)

Comments

[photoash.livejournal.com]

I'm still a few episodes behind right now. But I was wondering - are you still really enjoying the show? I have seen other people saying they aren't, and honestly I haven't been that excited about it (I've downloaded the 3 episodes I'm behind and still haven't watched them).

If you are really enjoying it - can you tell me what is still holding your interest in it?

I think maybe for me personally, I've just kinda lost my love of the fandom :/ which makes me sad.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

Well, there's fandom, and then there's the show. I am, for the most part, doing my own thing fandom-wise, taking from it what I like and ignoring what I don't.

When it comes to the show, what's holding my interest is that House is still on a journey, and it's still fun to try to figure him out. House has spent this year trying to deal with life sober. A good friend of mine pointed out that we haven't been in House's point-of-view as much as this season, so a lot of that struggle has happened off screen. I like trying to puzzle out what House has been thinking, because even more than prior seasons, it's been hard to determine.

And this season has had a lot of Wilson, and I find Wilson utterly fascinating. How RSL manages to make a cohesive character out of all these varying, weird aspects that different writers throw onto Wilson, I will never know.

Wilson and House are both utterly human in their complexity. They defy simplification. I love it.

[photoash.livejournal.com]

That's a cool way to look at it :) I hadn't thought about how we aren't in House's pov as much but that is true! It does make it harder to suss out what he is thinking.

I'm going to keep your points in mind when I watch the other episodes :) Thanks for answering!

[taiga13.livejournal.com]

I agree that Wilson isn't being cruel and House is a jerk! (not sure about being a crybaby)
I love House too, but WILSON HAS A RIGHT TO HIS OWN LIFE. A right to have a girlfriend. House has never said he doesn't, so why should we? House is responsible for himself, and HE'S the one telling Wilson he needs to take care of himself and do what he needs to do to be happy!

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

not sure about being a crybaby - House was being pretty damn pouty about Wilson having arranged for House to go out and have fun. Yes, Wilson got a benefit out of it -- but House did too.

The level to which some fans want Wilson to bend to House's whims actually scares me. I am afraid some real person will start to believe that's the degree to which they should bend for a friend (or lover) and... yikes, if that isn't a set-up for abuse.

[theninth.livejournal.com]

I wasn't sure if House was pouty about Wilson having arranged for House to go out and have fun, if he was irritated that Wilson was acting like House was his kid and needed a babysitter, or if House was just trying to push Wilson's Guilt Button.

What I did notice that when Wilson sat down at some point in the episode, he immediately put his feet up and unconsciously rubbed his right thigh like House does.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

I don't know if House was pouty about it, but he sure was pouty during that scene. House isn't a crybaby in general, but he sure was a pouty baby in that scene.

I think I need to polish up my "House is Wilson's teenaged son" essay and post it.

***

I missed Wilson rubbing his thigh! Well, he walks in step with House, makes sense he'd subconsciously take on some of House's other movements.

[taiga13.livejournal.com]

The level to which some fans want Wilson to bend to House's whims actually scares me.
No joke, me too. It smacks of borderline personality disorder. What gets me is fans who assume that the character feels the same way they do - even when the character is saying they don't.
As for Wilson sacrificing himself for House's happiness, I keep coming back to that chilling scene in whatever episode it was where House found out Wilson pretended to talk to his dead girlfriend every night. Because one day Wilson will hold those conversations with House himself. Given their histories, age difference and lifestyles, Wilson will almost certainly outlive House. Then what?
I see what you mean about being pouty, but he didn't COMPLAIN which is what I associate with being a crybaby.
I noticed the thigh rub too, but figured it was an unconscious reaction of the actor's.

[namasteyoga.livejournal.com]

I haven't even dared to look into a few discussions because of the "House is woobie and Wilson is MEAN!!!!" comments I've seen.

ETA: By the way, why is it that a 13/14 year old seems to be wanting to dominate the discussions over on H/W every time I open a thread these days. I suppose it falls into the theory every 13/14 year old has that the world revolves around them.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

Because House has the emotional maturity (and self-centered nature) often seen in a 13-14 year old, and therefore appeals to people of that age?

(I am in no way saying I was a bastion of rationality at 13, by the way.)

[xayeidemon.livejournal.com]

Wilson is not evil. He's human, and he's concerned about House's future. I...I don't know why this is so hard for some folks to grasp.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

I will quote a co-worker of mine (when I asked a similar question about a work-related thing): "Because they're stupid."

*hugs to you* I didn't comment on your house_wilson post but thought it was pitch perfect!

[xayeidemon.livejournal.com]

I've been stewing about this since last night, and fandom makes me pinch the bridge of my nose like this:


You can't see me, but I just did it.

[moose-mcmoose.livejournal.com]

Discussions on that comm make my smile turn upside down. But, really, we can't have Wilson doing anything to benefit himself.....ever....because then House will be all lonely and will look forlornly from his bedroom window, as rain drifts down the glass, and his eyes fill with salty tears, filled with betrayal and yearning.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

You know the really dumb part? The same fans who get so mad at Wilson adore the wistful scene you so vividly and accurately described.

*shakes head*

[aileb42.livejournal.com]

Lol, I'm so flattered I don't know what to say.

<3<3

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

<3 <3 will do perfectly!

[aileb42.livejournal.com]

I'll just add thank you too! :D :D

[m-supercomputer.livejournal.com]

Positive side to fandom craziness: if I didn't have them to pointlessly argue with I'd probably get bored and start trolling political blogs, and that'd just get ugly. *g*

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

Ooh, yeah, the political blogs are not where you'd want to troll, I think. Them people got guns.

*hugs*

[nightdog-barks.livejournal.com]

If Wilson had really wanted to be cruel to House, he would've told the cops at the very beginning of the episode that no, he had no idea who this tall, scruffy guy who probably still reeked of alcohol, was. And then House could've spent a few pleasant hours (at the very least) in a jail cell.

Gee, if Wilson's such a awful friend, I wonder why he didn't do that? Fandom just makes me crazy sometimes.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

And you know if the shoe had been on the other foot, House might have told the cops he didn't know who Wilson was just for the laughs.

*shaking head*

[nightdog-barks.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. And lest we forget, this is the same guy who actively tried to get Wilson extradited to Louisiana in "Birthmarks" so he wouldn't have to go to his father's funeral.

Wilson has done some really dick things to House. But House has done equally dick things, and fandom hardly ever calls him on it. The double standard is maddening.

[soophelia.livejournal.com]

Wilson has done some really dick things to House. But House has done equally dick things, and fandom hardly ever calls him on it. The double standard is maddening.

I agree with you.

[nightdog-barks.livejournal.com]

:-)

[felis-nocturna.livejournal.com]

Okay. I didn't want to get into any of this, because I thought the whole "Wilson is a bad friend" discussion was idiotic from the outset, but there is one thing bugging me here:

Wilson and House are both utterly human in their complexity. They defy simplification.

This is what you said in your reply to photoash and I completely agree with it. I don't like generalizations of any kind because I don't think they do any of the characters justice. But the sentence you are quoting in your post doesn't take this into consideration. Of course the reactions towards Wilson are ridiculous, but calling House a jerk and a crybaby isn't much better in my opinion. We can talk (and disagree) about actions in specific scenes, about intentions and results, about choice and ability to change, about different character traits and whatever else, but over-simplifying isn't going to help anywhere.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, when itcomes to in-depth discussion over-simplification does not help. But sometimes one is compelled to reduce things to their simplest form.

There is a distinction I make between who someone is and what someone does. House is not defined by his jerkiness and yet he does in fact act like a jerk. Often. Self-admittedly. Sometimes for the greater good, and sometimes for his own benefit, and sometimes just because he feels like it.

Or as I had Wilson say to House in a fic: "Acting like a jerk is a lifestyle choice for you, not a congenital disorder."

If you prefer canon:

"Wilson: You can be a real jerk sometimes, you know that?

House: Yeah. And you’re the good guy.

Wilson: At least I try.

House: As long as you’re trying to be good, you can do whatever you want.

Wilson: And as long as you’re not trying, you can say whatever you want.

House: So between us, we can do anything. We can rule the world!"

[felis-nocturna.livejournal.com]

But sometimes one is compelled to reduce things to their simplest form.

Why? Because they wouldn't be heard otherwise? And are you saying "jerk" and "crybaby" is the simplest form to describe House? I just don't think there is a "simplest form" when talking about a character. (Especially on House where almost nothing is ever as simple as it looks and where they have made an artform out of questioning the characters' motivations.)

And I agree with you again on the distinction between who someone is and what he does and also why he does it. This was in fact the background for my comment. Of course House often acts like a jerk, but it was exactly my point that this doesn't make him one in general. Just like - as you quoted - Wilson's good intentions don't always make him the good guy.

Just as an afterthought - the line you quoted from your fic is interesting, because I think this is one of the things this episode was about. Is House able to change, control himself, even if he might fail here and there (= lifestyle choice) or would this mean he is denying his identity (= congenital disorder). This was examined from very different angles with Taub, the patient and in House's conversations with Thirteen and Wilson.

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

Why is one so compelled? Because sometimes one is sick of having to caveat everything to placate people who feel no such compunction to temper their own outspoken opinions.

"House is being a jerk and a crybaby" is a simple statement of truth. Note that "is being" implies a temporary state, not a permanent one. Nobody's reducing House to anything; they're describing his behavior.

You're right to some extent about the quote from my fic. But you've missed one point that I was trying to make (through Wilson's words): House often makes a specific choice to act like a jerk. In these times, it's not that he fails to control himself; it's that he deliberately says or does something provocative or with a deliberate lack of concern for other people's feelings. Sometimes this is for a noble reason, and sometimes it is because House is putting his own desires above other people's. One large example from this season is when House told PPTH about Wilson appearing in a porno. He thoroughly embarrassed Wilson solely for the laughs. And it was funny. I laughed too. But that was a jerk move that House consciously decided to make and had no remorse for afterwards.

Yes, there are other times where House is trying to be decent and makes an honest slip. Absolutely. But please do not deny that House often chooses to be rude.

[felis-nocturna.livejournal.com]

Okay. As I can see by your response and your second post on this issue, you are very annoyed by all of this and I'm sorry, it really wasn't my intention to contribute to it or rain on your parade. Maybe this was the wrong situation to state my opinion. Just let me clear two things up:

The point I was trying to make in my initial comment is that I don't think that there are simple truths about any of the characters. I wasn't sure about your stance on this, so I wrote the comment, but I think it is quite clear now that you disagree with this premise, which is fine.

About your quote: I did get the point you were trying to make, I just tried to take it from a broader perspective. I find the whole issue of choice and identity absolutely fascinating and here as well I think there isn't a simple truth. Both of these are interwoven to an endless degree and this is one of the things the show comes back to again and again.

[dangomango.livejournal.com]

Lol I left the fandom because I was sick to death of Gregory House the Saint who is so beloved by so much of the fandom...and went into Supernatural instead, where I get to hear ALL DAY LONG about Saint Dean Winchester (I prefer Sam).

I'll never escape it Dee :(

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

It's inescapable, unfortunately. : (

[dangomango.livejournal.com]

They could at least do it for the character I preferred. *pouts* But you know, in the long run, that would probably be just as irritating. At least we have the consolation that "the masses", as it were, are so very rarely right about anything ;D

[daisylily.livejournal.com]

Fandom (in general, not anything specific) is really, really pissing me off lately, which is why I haven't been around much. I don't read comments on many of the comms anyway, and only read episode posts from people I trust (such as you or Night Dog).

It's possible I'm a tad depressed, since there's a whole load of stupid going on at work at the moment, and fandom is making it worse :/

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

I am very, very happy to see you, and quite cross that stupid of both the fandom and work varities is getting you down. *stamps foot and shoos all stupidity away from Daisylily*

Email me! ♥

[daisylily.livejournal.com]

I have :D

♥

[hwshipper.livejournal.com]

Aw so sorry to hear that daisylily. I was thinking I hadn't seen you around much recently :(

[daisylily.livejournal.com]

I've emailed Dee, which made me feel better - plus I have a whole load of fic bookmarked to read at home (work has decided to get all draconian about internetting, so we're all being careful) including your new Chris fic that I spotted on my f-list at lunch time today (so I'm looking forward to that :D )

[hwshipper.livejournal.com]

I do hope Chris & Linus help cheer you up :D

[bery26.livejournal.com]

LOL!!

It is sometimes hard to keep in mind that House is a huge jerk when the whole show revolves around him (we're always in his shoes) and the fandom beats us into constantly excusing him for it all.